>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS, EXPANDING VOTING RIGHTS.

HEAR FROM LAWMAKERS INSIDE THE ROUNDHOUSE WHO SAY THIS IS THE YEAR TO INCREASE ACCESS TO OUR ELECTIONS.

>> Burling: WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE ALL ELIGIBLE VOTERS CAN VOTE AND MAKE IT EASY ON THEM.

HOWEVER WE GET THERE IS GOING TO BE ALRIGHT WITH ME.

>> Gene: AND, NEW ANALYSIS OF THE CASE AGAINST ALEC BALDWIN AS SANTA FE COUNTY PROSECUTORS FILE FORMAL CHARGES.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

ACTOR AND PRODUCER ALEC BALDWIN HAS BEEN FORMALLY CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SHOOTING DEATH OF CINEMATOGRAPHER HALYNA HUTCHINS.

COMING UP IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, WE SIT DOWN WITH A SENIOR REPORTER AT VARIETY MAGAZINE, HIS NAME IS GENE MADDAUS, TO TALK ABOUT THE FALLOUT FROM THE 'RUST' SHOOTING CHARGES.

WE ALSO HAVE OUR EYE ON THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS WEEK AS LAWMAKERS CONSIDER UPDATES TO THE STATE'S PRIMARY AND GENERAL ELECTION LAWS.

IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, NEW MEXICO INFOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND ASKS LEADERS IN BOTH PARTIES WHY THESE CHANGES ARE NECESSARY NOW.

THEN, IN ABOUT 40 MINUTES OUR LINE OPINION PANEL DISCUSSES A NEW BILL THAT WOULD GIVE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THE POWER TO MANAGE THEIR OWN COMMUNITY'S ELECTRICAL NEEDS.

BUT WE START WITH CRITICISM ON A KEY PIECE OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY EQUATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE MOST INFLUENTIAL SHERIFF IN THE STATE.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE -- >> Gene: WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE'RE HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN STUDIO BY MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS.

DAVE MULRYAN IS HERE.

HE'S PRESIDENT OF MULRYAN-NASH ADVERTISING.

AND RIGHT BESIDE HIM IS CATHRYN MCGILL, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW, OUR FIRST TOPIC TODAY CENTERS AROUND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW WE TOOK YOU INSIDE THE ROUNDHOUSE FOR A LOOK AT SOME OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY LEGISLATION ON THE TABLE FOR THE ENTIRE STATE, BUT THE REALITY ON THE GROUND USUALLY CHANGES PERSPECTIVE A BIT.

THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS THIS WEEK, ON THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS FOR SPECIFIC DEPARTMENTS.

NOW, WE GOT A LOOK BEHIND THE CURTAIN, SO TO SPEAK, IN A RECENT ALBUQUERQUE INTERVIEW WITH BERNALILLO COUNTY SHERIFF JOHN ALLEN.

NOW, WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEPARTMENT'S BODY CAMERA SYSTEMS -- I LOVE THIS SO MUCH -- HE TOLD THE JOURNAL, "THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW FOR BODY-WORN CAMERAS IS TRASH."

NOW, SHERIFF ALLEN POINTS TO ISSUES RECORDING AUDIO BECAUSE OF WIND OR AREA NOISE, A BIG PROBLEM OF MEMORY CAPACITY RESTRAINTS, DELAYS UPLOADING AND PROCESSING VIDEOS - IT GOES ON AND ON -- AND SYSTEM SHORTCOMINGS THAT MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO SHARE LONG VIDEOS WITH THE MEDIA OR OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

NOW, MERRITT, THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IS JUST TWO YEARS INTO A 5-YEAR, $3.8-MILLION CONTRACT WITH THE COMPANY PROVIDING THESE BODY CAMERA SERVICES.

WHY IS THIS JUST NOW BEING DISCUSSED?

WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THESE COMPLAINTS?

IT'S REALLY KIND OF SHOCKING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS DEAL.

>> Merritt: WELL, WHAT I FOUND FROM THIS STORY, THIS INTERVIEW, IS THIS SHOWS A TRUE WILLINGNESS FROM THIS NEW SHERIFF TO HAVE COMPLETE DOCUMENTATION AND SOME TRANSPARENCY AND ACTUALLY HAVE FUNCTIONING VIDEO DOCUMENTATION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT WORK.

>> Gene: JUST TO MAKE THAT CLEAR, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, HE'S PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE OF HIS PREDECESSOR, WHO WAS FORCED BY LAW?

>> Merritt: HE CERTAINLY HAS A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO IT.

HE'S CERTAINLY EMBRACING BODY CAMERAS, AND HE WANTS THE FULL FUNCTIONALITY OF THE BEST TECHNOLOGY THAT IS OUT THERE.

AND SO I FOUND THIS A VERY REFRESHING CHANGE, AND IT SEEMED TO ME JUST FROM MY DECADES OF CRISIS MANAGEMENT AND CRISIS COMMUNICATION HE IS OWNING THIS, HE IS TAKING IT BY THE HORNS, AND HE IS NOT AFRAID TO TALK ABOUT IT AND SHOWING SOME ACCOUNTABILITY FOR FIELD WORK.

SO I THOUGHT THIS WAS A VERY POSITIVE TURN WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE BERNALILLO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

THAT WAS MY FIRST TAKE.

NOW, THE BACK STORY, THIS CONTRACT AND WHY IT IS AND WHY THESE CAMERAS AREN'T WORKING, DOES THAT IMPLY THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION THAT WASN'T ROBUST, THAT THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF PREVIOUS INTEREST?

THAT MAY ALL BE THE CASE.

BUT I JUST FEEL GOOD THAT THERE'S A SOLUTION MOVING FORWARD AND THAT OUR CURRENT SHERIFF WANTS SOMETHING BETTER.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

DAVID, HE'S NOT SHY ABOUT -- HE'S NOT TRASHING HIS PREDECESSOR, CERTAINLY, BUT HE'S PUTTING A LITTLE DISTANCE BETWEEN PHILOSOPHICALLY WHERE MR. GONZALES WAS AND WHERE HE IS NOW.

>> Dave: HE IS, ALTHOUGH IF YOU TALK TO HIM PERSONALLY, HE IS TRASHING HIM.

BUT IT'S OKAY, YOU KNOW, TO SEE.

BUT I THINK THAT THE NEWLY ELECTED SHERIFF IS DOING A SMART THING.

HE'S SAYING, LOOK, THE COFFERS ARE FULL IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF OIL AND GAS, HE'S POINTING OUT WE HAVE A PROBLEM, I NEED TO GET RID OF THIS PROBLEM, I'M GOING TO NEED MONEY, BUT HE'S DOING IT FROM A COMMUNICATIONS -- HE'S SAYING, THIS THING DOES NOT WORK AND IT'S NOT A GOOD THING, AND I NEED YOU TO FUND IT.

IT'S A SMART MOVE.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A SMART MOVE, BUT IT SHOWS, TO ME, IT SHOWS THAT HE UNDERSTANDS HOW BEING AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, LIKE A SHERIFF, HIS JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEPARTMENT DOES WHAT'S BEST FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED HIM, BUT ALSO FOR THE PEOPLE THEY ARE SWORN TO PROTECT.

SO I THINK IT'S A SMART MOVE ALL THE WAY AROUND.

I THINK HE'S -- REALLY, OF THE NEW ELECTED STATEWIDE PEOPLE, HE'S I THINK DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB OF LAYING OUT AN AGENDA THAT HE'S GOING TO COVER IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, OR HOWEVER -- IT'S FOUR YEARS, RIGHT, FOR THE SHERIFF?

>> Gene: YES.

>> Dave: SO I THINK IT'S A GOOD MOVE.

>> Gene: HE'S MAKING IT OUT THERE.

CATHY, IT'S INTERESTING, JUST TO CATCH FOLKS UP ON WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE FOR THIS $3.8 MILLION 5-YEAR CONTRACT FROM UTILITY INC., THAT'S THE NAME OF THE COMPANY, IT INCLUDES 310 BODY WORN CAMERAS, PLUS UNIFORM TAILORING, VEHICLE CAMERAS FRONT AND BACK, CRUISER WI-FI HOTSPOTS, HOLSTERS THAT ACTIVATE THE CAMERAS WHEN A FIREARM IS DRAWN.

THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE TRASH TECHNOLOGY, IT SOUNDS GOOD, BUT APPARENTLY IT'S JUST NOT WORKING.

TECH IS HARD.

IT'S A VERY HARD THING TO IMPLEMENT.

DID WE TRY TO TAKE TOO BIG A BITE HERE?

>> Cathryn: I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK CERTAINLY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BODY WORN CAMERAS THAT DO WORK.

SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH TO FIND OUT, WHO DO THEY USE AND HOW DID THEY IMPLEMENT THOSE BODY WORN CAMERAS IN THEIR DEPARTMENTS.

THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T DO IT HERE IS VERY TELLING, AND THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE COMMITTEE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE WORKING ON THE PROJECT WHO IT IS THEIR JOB TO DO THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

SO THE ELECTED OFFICIAL, PROBABLY NOT THE BEST PERSON.

I'M NOT CERTAIN WHAT THE DIGITAL LITERACY IS OF THAT INDIVIDUAL.

BUT I WOULD PROBABLY THINK THAT MAYBE HE SHOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOUND SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO KNEW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT IT.

AND I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR CURRENT SHERIFF IS IN A HONEYMOON PERIOD.

THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME FOR HIM TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I WENT THROUGH AND I LOOKED AT THIS STUFF, AND TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT IT, TELL IT QUICKLY, AND IT'S TRASH.

AND I'M HERE FOR A POLITICIAN WHO WILL CALL IT WHAT IT IS, CALL A THING A THING.

IT'S TRASH.

YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE BEFORE, AS MERRITT ALLUDED SO ELOQUENTLY TO, DID NOT WANT IT, AND SO THEN YOU DO SOMETHING THAT WILL PROBABLY SABOTAGE IT.

WE NEED THEM, AND SO I SAY, GET IT RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE MADE A MISTAKE AND NOW CORRECT IT.

>> Gene: MERRITT, IT'S INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT, WHEN I READ ABOUT SOME OF THE SHORTCOMINGS HERE, HOW ONE COULD AGREE TO A DEAL OF FIVE YEARS TO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MEMORY TO RECORD MORE THAN SEVEN HOURS OF VIDEO AND THEN IT JUST AUTOMATICALLY CLIPS, AND YOU HAVE TO SEND YOUR VIDEO TO THE COMPANY TO GET IT BACK AGAIN.

THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO WORK BY ANY STRETCH.

>> Merritt: WELL, WE ALL KNOW, IT WAS PRETTY WELL REPORTED, THAT THERE WAS A GREAT RELUCTANCE ON THE PART OF THE PREVIOUS SHERIFF TO GO TO BODY WORN CAMERAS.

DID NOT SEE A NEED, FELT IT WAS GOING TO HINDER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN THAT DEPARTMENT, DID NOT WANT IT.

SO IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE RELUCTANT TO DO, ARE YOU GOING TO INVEST A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT?

SO HERE'S A SOLUTION.

OKAY, FINE, NOW I HAVE BODY WORN CAMERAS, ARE YOU HAPPY?

WHAT THE INTENT WAS, WE MAY NEVER KNOW, AND I THINK SHERIFF ALLEN JUST WANTS TO MOVE ON TO WORKING TECHNOLOGY.

>> Gene: DOES MR. GONZALES NEED TO SIT DOWN IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY AND EXPLAIN THIS DEAL?

IS THAT THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP?

HE'S OUT OF OFFICE NOW, BUT -- >> Merritt: I DON'T THINK THAT'S HELPFUL.

I THINK SHERIFF ALLEN SHOULD JUST BE ALLOWED TO MOVE ON AND GET THE TECHNOLOGY HE NEEDS TO HAVE HIS DEPARTMENT FUNCTION THE WAY HE FEELS IT SHOULD.

>> Gene: A QUOTE FROM SHERIFF ALLEN, BY THE WAY, TO FINISH THIS BIT.

"I THINK THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IS WAY BEHIND THE POWER CURVE, BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD BODY CAMERAS PROBABLY TWO YEARS PREVIOUS, AND THEN THE LAW CAME OUT AND THEY WERE RUSHED, AND I THINK THAT PUSHED PEOPLE INTO THE CORNER TO GET THINGS DONE."

I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD EXPLANATION OF THAT.

NOW, SHIFTING OUR ATTENTION TO ALBUQUERQUE, SPECIFICALLY, THE CITY COUNCIL VOTED UNANIMOUSLY LAST MONTH TO REMOVE THE CITY'S EXISTING CIVILIAN POLICE OVERSIGHT AGENCY BOARD AND REPLACE IT WITH A NEW CIVILIAN POLICE OVERSIGHT ADVISORY BOARD.

THE CHANGE WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS ON THE BOARD, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT, AND ALLOWS THE BOARD'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TO MAKE OFFICER DISCIPLINARY RECOMMENDATIONS TO APD WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE BOARD.

CATHY, WILL THESE CHANGES MAKE THE BOARD MORE EFFECTIVE?

IT'S HARD TO PREDICT ON THIS ONE, BUT JUST ON ITS SORT OF PHYSICS, ARE YOU IN SUPPORT?

>> Cathryn: I WOULD SAY THAT BY ALL INDICATIONS, IT MEANS THAT THE BOARD HAS LESS POWER THAN IT DID BEFORE, THAT -- IT WASN'T WORKING, AND I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THIS IS GOING TO MAKE IT WORK ANY BETTER.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS.

I'M CERTAINLY NOT A FAN OF ONE PERSON BEING ABLE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THE ENTIRE BODY.

SO WE'LL SEE.

>> Gene: DAVID, THIS COMES AS THE DEPARTMENT UPDATES IT'S USE OF FORCE POLICIES FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 2020.

KIND OF A BIG DEAL.

>> Dave: THAT'S A VERY BIG DEAL.

>> Gene: THE USE OF TASERS, SPECIFICALLY.

WE'VE HAD ISSUES HERE IN THIS CITY WHERE TASERS ARE EITHER INAPPROPRIATELY USED, OR COULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER USE THAN A FIREARM.

NOW WE'RE GETTING MORE CLARIFICATION.

DOES IT SEEM MORE CLEAR TO YOU?

>> David: IT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT CLEARER, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS IDEA OF CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT OF THE POLICE.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT CONTINUES TO BE DISFUNCTIONAL.

I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED.

WE ARE UNDER-POLICED ON ANY GIVEN DAY, AND I THINK WE'RE EXPECTING THEM TO DO THINGS WHICH ARE JUST NOT POSSIBLE TO DO.

I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THESE THINGS AND THEY WERE SAYING, IF WE HAD AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT OF POLICE THAT THEY HAVE -- POLICE TO, YOU KNOW, PERSONS -- IN NEW YORK, OUR POLICE FORCE WOULD BE THREE TIMES LARGER THAN IT IS.

AND SO WHEN I THINK -- AND AGAIN, ALL THIS SPEAKS TO, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ATTRACT A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING TO NEW MEXICO FOR WHATEVER REASON IF YOU'RE KNOWN AS BEING HIGH CRIME, AND I THINK WE HAVE THAT REPUTATION RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, YOU CAN HAVE AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM THAT'S THE GREATEST IN THE COUNTRY, BUT IF YOU HAVE A HIGH CRIME RATE, YOU HAVE A REPUTATION FOR BEING HIGH CRIME, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE.

YOU'RE JUST NOT GOING TO DO IT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

MERRITT, ON THIS CHANGE IN THE CITY'S OVERSIGHT PROCESS, DOES THIS IMPACT THE INFLUENCE THE PUBLIC HAS ON SOMETHING LIKE APD'S UPDATED USE OF FORCE LANGUAGE?

ARE WE DEEPER IN THE CONVERSATION NOW?

>> Merritt: WE'VE BEEN ROLLING AROUND IN THIS FOR A DECADE, AND I DO NOT SEE A SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL CHANGE.

THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING IN NEW LEADERSHIP TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THE MAYOR OPTED TO STAY WITH POLITICAL EXPEDIENCE.

I DON'T SEE A REAL DESIRE TO CHANGE THE CULTURE, AND SO WE KEEP HAVING WHAT WE HAVE.

AND POLICY CHANGES AND OVERSIGHT BOARD ADJUSTMENTS I DON'T THINK DO MUCH OTHER THAN CREATE NEW BUREAUCRACY, AND I THINK DAVE MAKES THE PERFECT POINT.

WE'RE UNDER-POLICED, WE'RE UNDER-RESOURCED, WE HAVE CULTURAL PROBLEMS WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED BECAUSE WE HAVE THE SAME PEOPLE RUNNING IT.

SO I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS.

>> Gene: THAT'S A GOOD POINT THERE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL ON THAT.

IN OUR NEXT SEGMENT, THE PANEL AND I WILL DISCUSS A NEW SERIES OF BILLS THAT COULD MAKE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO OUR ELECTION PROCESSES, FROM RANK CHOICE VOTING TO OPEN PRIMARIES.

A LOT OF GOOD STUFF TO TALK ABOUT, AND WE'LL TALK IT THROUGH ALL IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES.

>> Maddaus: I'VE BEEN TALKING TO DEFENSE LAWYERS IN NEW MEXICO WHO ARE SORT OF SPELLING OUT FOR ME, HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO PROVE TO PROVE INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, AND IT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T CHECK THE GUN, IT'S NOT JUST I FORGOT TO DO SOMETHING, IT'S A WILLFUL DISREGARD FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE AND SAFETY, AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT THERE'S A DANGER AND YOU HAVE TO IGNORE IT.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK IN THE ROUNDHOUSE, VOTING HAS BECOME ONE OF THE LEADING ISSUES FOR LAWMAKERS.

LEGISLATORS FROM BOTH PARTIES ARE PUSHING A WIDE RANGE OF BILLS TARGETING TOPICS LIKE LOBBYING DISCLOSURES, REDISTRICTING, OPEN PRIMARIES, ELECTION SECURITY, AND VOTING RIGHTS FOR FELONS.

NEW MEXICO In FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENCE GWYNETH DOLAND WAS IN SANTA FE THIS WEEK AND CAUGHT UP WITH TWO LAWMAKERS AND A VOTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE TO ASK HOW THESE INITIATIVES COULD IMPACT VOTERS.

>> Gwyneth: SENATOR MOORES, THERE'S A LOT OF GROUPS UP HERE TODAY.

IT'S COMMUNITY HEALTH ORGANIZATION DAY.

SOMETIMES YOU'VE GOT DOCTORS, TEACHERS, CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE, OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY FOLKS, ALL TRYING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON WHAT YOU'RE WORKING ON.

YOU HAVE A BILL THAT WOULD ASK THEM TO DISCLOSE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?

>> Sen. Moores: THERE'S A WHOLE POLITICAL INDUSTRIAL MACHINE BASED IN SANTA FE AND WASHINGTON WITH A LOT OF MONEY AND A LOT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET INFLUENCE ON POLICYMAKERS.

WHEN WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR IS SOME DISCLOSURE.

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING MONEY, WHAT ARE THEIR POSITIONS, WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM, SO THAT WE KNOW WHO'S GETTING INVOLVED BEHIND THE SCENES WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE BIG DECISIONS.

>> Gwyneth: SO WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION SPECIFICALLY?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?

LIKE, WHAT BILLS THEY'RE WORKING ON?

>> Sen. Moores: WHAT WE'D LIKE TO KNOW IS WHO'S PAYING THE MONEY, AND ALSO WHAT BILLS THEY'RE WORKING ON AND WHAT THEIR POSITIONS ARE.

SO THAT WAY WE KNOW AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS WHO'S BEHIND BILLS, WHO'S PAYING FOR IT, AND WE'RE BETTER INFORMED AS LEGISLATORS.

>> Gwyneth: NOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT A COUPLE OF OTHER OPEN GOVERNMENT TOPICS.

YOU HAVE LONG BEEN A SUPPORTER OF REDISTRICTING REFORM.

THERE IS A MOVEMENT THIS SESSION, AGAIN, TO GIVE THIS TO AN INDEPENDENT COMMITTEE.

WE'VE SEEN THIS FAIL SO MANY TIMES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> Sen. Moores: I'M A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR REDISTRICTING REFORM FOR MANY YEARS NOW, BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW IS LEGISLATORS GETTING TO DRAW THEIR OWN DISTRICTS.

THAT'S, IN EFFECT, LEGISLATORS PICKING THEIR CONSTITUENTS ONCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR LONG ENOUGH, AS OPPOSED TO CONSTITUENTS PICKING THEIR LEGISLATORS.

SO I'M REALLY FIGHTING FOR THIS, AND I THINK WE MIGHT BE AT A POINT WHERE WE HAVE ENOUGH CRITICAL MASS OF YOUNGER PEOPLE WANTING REFORM IN NEW MEXICO IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT WE HAVE THE BEST OPPORTUNITY THAT WE'VE HAD IN A NUMBER OF YEARS TO GET THIS PASSED.

SO WE'RE REALLY WORKING ON IT HARD THIS YEAR, AND THIS MIGHT BE THE YEAR, HOPEFULLY, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GO THROUGH ANOTHER REDISTRICTING THAT WAS SO DIVISIVE AND REALLY CUT THE PEOPLE OUT OF THE PROCESS FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS BEFORE WE DO THIS AGAIN.

>> Gwyneth: NOW, YOU MENTIONED YOUNG PEOPLE.

THEY ARE MORE INDEPENDENT THAN EVER, LESS LIKELY TO COMMIT TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

YOU'RE SUPPORTING A BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW INDEPENDENTS TO VOTE IN PRIMARIES.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> Sen. Moores: OPEN PRIMARIES TO ME IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

IN NEW MEXICO, UNLESS YOU BELONG TO ONE OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES, YOU CANNOT VOTE IN A PRIMARY, AND YET SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T BELONG TO A PARTY.

SO THEY DON'T HAVE A SAY IN WHO THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE.

SO I BELIEVE OPENING IT UP TO INDEPENDENTS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING FOR THE PRIMARIES.

IT'S GOOD GOVERNANCE IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THE PRIMARY AND HAVE THIS ELECTION, THAT THEY SHOULD BE PART OF THE PROCESS.

>> Gwyneth: MS. BURLING, DEMOCRATS HAVE BROUGHT BACK A BILL DEALING WITH VOTING RIGHTS SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT DIED ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LAST SESSION WITH A REPUBLICAN FILIBUSTER.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ELEMENTS TO THE BILL, BUT ONE OF THEM IS TRYING TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GETTING REGISTERED TO VOTE BY MAKING IT AUTOMATIC.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> Burling: THIS MEANS THAT WHEN YOU GO TO GET YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, INSTEAD OF OPTING IN TO REGISTER TO VOTE, YOU WILL HAVE TO OPT OUT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO REGISTER TO VOTE.

IT WILL BE AUTOMATIC.

YOU DO HAVE THE CHOICE NOT TO REGISTER, AND THE LEAGUE BELIEVES THAT THIS MAKES IT MUCH EASIER FOR NEW MEXICANS TO VOTE.

WE ARE ALL ABOUT EMPOWERING VOTERS AND DEFENDING DEMOCRACY.

AND NEW MEXICANS WORK, NEW MEXICANS GO TO SCHOOL, AND THEY DRIVE LONG DISTANCES.

THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS PREPARED TO LISTEN TO A DISCUSSION OF, SHOULD THEY REGISTER TO VOTE OR NOT.

>> Gwyneth: ONE OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS HERE IS PROTECTING SOME VOTER DATA, AND THE LEAGUE SUPPORTS KEEPING THAT SECRET.

BUT I THOUGHT THE LEAGUE WAS ALL ABOUT TRANSPARENCY?

>> Burling: WE ARE GENERALLY ALL ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, AND WE HAVE, IN FACT, BEEN QUITE CONFLICTED ABOUT THIS.

BUT IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE, WITH THE KINDS OF VOTER SUPPRESSION AND VOTER INTIMIDATION THAT WE HAVE SEEN, WE NO LONGER BELIEVE THAT IT'S ADVISABLE FOR VOTER INFORMATION TO BE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE.

>> Gwyneth: ANOTHER THING IS A PERMANENT ABSENTEE BALLOT LIST.

AS IT IS NOW, IF YOU WANT ONE, YOU HAVE TO SIGN UP EACH ELECTION, BUT YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT A ONE TIME, ONE AND DONE.

>> Burling: ABSOLUTELY.

AND AGAIN, WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE TO GO SIGN UP FOR EVERY ELECTION?

THAT'S THREE OUT OF FOUR YEARS, EASILY, IF NOT MORE.

WE BELIEVE THAT VOTING IS AN ESSENTIAL CITIZEN RIGHT AND THAT IT MUST BE GUARANTEED.

>> Gwyneth: REPRESENTATIVE CHASEY, THERE ARE PARTS OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON HERE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR FOR A LONG TIME.

TELL ME WHAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON WITH THE RESTORATION OF FELONS VOTING RIGHTS.

>> Rep. Chasey: WE HAVE HAD THAT RESTORATION SINCE 2001, AND IT'S NEVER WORKED CONSISTENTLY WELL.

SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ENTITLED TO REGISTER TO VOTE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO SO.

AND IF PASSED, THIS WOULD LITERALLY ENABLE THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS TO GET BACK ON THE VOTER ROLLS, BE MORE A PART OF OUR SOCIETY, AND REALLY THE DATA SHOWS, THE EVIDENCE SHOWS IT WILL MAKE EVERYBODY SAFER BECAUSE THEY'LL BE ENGAGED.

>> Gwyneth: IT SEEMS LIKE SOMEONE WOULD SAY, DO WE REALLY WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN PRISON FOR A VIOLENT CRIME TO VOTE.

>> Rep. Chasey: DO WE WANT THEM TO GO BACK TO PRISON BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ENGAGED IN SOCIETY?

ONE OF MY EXPERT WITNESSES TESTIFIED THAT HE SPENT 17 YEARS IN PRISON,, AND WHEN HE WAS ABLE TO VOTE FOR THE FIRST TIME, IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF HIS REHABILITATION AND PARTICIPATION IN SOCIETY.

HE HAS SINCE GOTTEN A MASTER'S DEGREE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Gwyneth: THERE'S OTHER ELEMENTS IN HERE.

SOME OF THEM WERE TEMPORARY PROVISIONS DURING THE PANDEMIC THAT THIS WOULD MAKE PERMANENT.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE?

>> Rep. Chasey: SOME OF THOSE INVOLVE MAKING VOTING EASIER FOR THE NATIVE POPULATIONS, IN ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS TO GET ON A PERMANENT ABSENTEE BALLOT LIST, MAKING DROP BOXES READILY AVAILABLE.

>> Gwyneth: THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS ABOUT SECURITY OF DROP BOXES.

DOES THIS ADDRESS THAT?

>> Rep. Chasey: I BELIEVE THAT IT DOES, AND I BELIEVE THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS CONVINCED THAT IT DOES.

AND I HOPE THAT THE CLERKS ARE ON BOARD, BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO CALL ANYTHING INTO QUESTION.

>> Gwyneth: DO YOU HAVE ANY REPUBLICANS WORKING WITH YOU NOW ON THIS PROJECT?

>> Rep. Chasey: NOT YET.

I'M CERTAINLY HOPING THAT WE WILL HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

>> Gwyneth: BUT WILL YOU DO IT EVEN WITHOUT THEM?

>> Rep. Chasey: WELL, I THINK THE FRANCHISE IN THIS COUNTRY IS A BIRTH RIGHT, AND WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL ELIGIBLE VOTERS CAN VOTE AND MAKE IT EASY ON THEM.

SO HOWEVER WE GET THERE IS GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT WITH ME.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE PANELISTS.

NOW, AS GWYNETH JUST SHOWED US, DEMOCRATS ARE TAKING ANOTHER GO AT PASSING A VOTING RIGHTS BILL THAT FAILED LAST YEAR IN THE ROUNDHOUSE.

NOW, IF APPROVED, IT WOULD CREATE A PERMANENT OPTIONAL ABSENTEE VOTER LIST, WOULD REINSTATE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FELONS IMMEDIATELY UPON RELEASE FROM PRISON, AND IT WOULD MAKE ELECTION DAY A STATE HOLIDAY.

THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE FOR A WHILE, THAT IDEA.

NOW, WITH A MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, WILL DEMOCRATS -- DAVID, I'LL START WITH YOU -- BE ABLE TO GET THIS BILL TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK?

IT SOUNDS EASY, BUT THIS MIGHT BE A BIT OF A PUSH.

INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> Dave: I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY TOUGH PUSH, NO QUESTION.

IF I WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE, IF THE LEGISLATURE WERE ASKING ME, I WOULD GO FOR LIKE THE BIG THING, WHICH I THINK IS MAKING VOTING A STATE HOLIDAY.

IT'S A GREAT THING, BECAUSE IT SAYS -- IT GIVES PEOPLE ONE LESS REASON NOT TO GO VOTE.

SO I WOULD TRY THAT.

IN TERMS OF THE FELONS, YOU KNOW, NEW MEXICO IS ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD.

YOU GET TO REGISTER TO VOTE AND VOTE AGAIN AFTER YOU FINISH SERVING YOUR PROBATION.

I THINK THE NEW BILL IS LOOKING TO DO IT AS SOON AS YOU COME OUT.

EVEN IF YOU'RE STILL ON PROBATION, YOU GET TO REGISTER TO VOTE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS.

MERRITT JUST SAID THIS, AND I'M STEALING IT, BUT I THINK A LOT OF THIS IS HAPPENING BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE'VE WEAPONIZED VOTING, AND I THINK ONE SIDE COULD BE SAID TO HAVE STARTED WEAPONIZING IT AND CALLING INTO QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF VOTING, WHILE THE OTHER SIDE, LIKE THESE BILLS IN NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS SORT OF A BLUE STATE, ARE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO HAVE ACCESS TO VOTING, WHICH I THINK MORE VOTING IS BETTER THAN LESS VOTING.

THAT'S ALL WE CAN SAY.

>> Gene: MERRITT, YOU CAN'T QUITE CALL THIS AN OMNIBUS BILL, BUT IT'S HUGE.

THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT IDEAS HERE.

I'M WONDERING IF IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO CONSIDER PASSING THESE PROPOSALS IN SMALLER INDIVIDUAL BILLS AND TRY TO GET TO SOME KIND OF COHESION AT THE END OF THE SESSION.

>> Merritt: I FEEL LIKE THIS BILL IS A 186-PAGE SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.

OUR ELECTIONS, FOR THE MOST PART, WORK PRETTY WELL IN NEW MEXICO, AND THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF IN HERE THAT I FIND PROBLEMATIC.

FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT COULD BE POLITICALLY VERY DANGEROUS FOR THE DEMOCRATS, BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY SEEN IN OTERO COUNTY AND SANDOVAL COUNTY THE FAR RIGHT WANTS TO CHALLENGE ELECTION RESULTS.

THIS IS A STRATEGY THE RNC IS IMPLEMENTING.

ELECTION INTEGRITY IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE BIG.

I'M ALREADY GETTING E-MAILS FROM THE STATE PARTY PUSHING AGAINST THIS, SO I THINK IT'S POLITICALLY IMPRUDENT OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE.

SHE'S GOING TO GET A LOT MORE PUSHBACK SHOULD THIS PASS.

I DON'T THINK 16-YEAR-OLDS NEED TO BE VOTING.

WE NEED TO DECIDE ON A MAJORITY AGE PERIOD.

IS IT 18?

IS IT 21?

NOW WE'RE THROWING 16 INTO THE MIX.

THAT'S NOT HELPFUL.

AND ALSO THIS MOTOR-VOTER AUTOMATIC REGISTRATION THING, IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO CREATE A LOT MORE DTS VOTERS AND IT'S GOING TO RESULT IN VOTER SUPPRESSION IN THE PRIMARY, BECAUSE DTS VOTERS CANNOT VOTE IN THE PRIMARY, AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT THE SAPIEN AMENDMENT DOES THAT.

ONE PERCENT OF INDEPENDENTS CHOSE TO CHANGE THEIR REGISTRATION AND GO VOTE IN THE PRIMARY THIS YEAR.

IT'S NOT WORKING, IT'S NOT A SOLUTION.

SO UNLESS THEY CRAM OPEN PRIMARIES INTO THIS BILL, IT'S REALLY A VOTER SUPPRESSION BILL.

>> Gene: THAT'S INTERESTING.

WE'LL HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT IN A LITTLE BIT.

CATHY, ANOTHER COUPLE OF ANECDOTES HERE.

THE BILL ALSO INCLUDES SPECIFIC PROVISIONS FOR NATIVE AMERICAN VOTERS, INCLUDING MANDATORY LANGUAGE TRANSLATION, SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA, DURING EARLY VOTING, OF COURSE.

USE OF TRIBAL BUILDINGS AS MAILING ADDRESSES FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE TRADITIONAL MAILING ADDRESSES, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN?

THERE'S A LOT OF LITTLE GOOD THINGS IN HERE, AND I SEE THEM WORKING AND TRYING TO PUT IT ALL IN ONE BIG BALL ROLLING DOWN HILL.

BUT I ASK AGAIN, MIGHT IT BE BETTER TO KIND OF HAVE THIS DISCUSSION PARSED OUT INDIVIDUALLY FOR ALL THESE IDEAS?

>> Cathryn: I THINK THERE COULD BE A LOT OF THINGS.

I ACTUALLY DISAGREE THAT THIS IS A BILL IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE NEED TO DO TO MODERNIZE ELECTIONS, AND I DON'T SEE A DOWN SIDE TO HAVING IT BE MORE EASY FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE.

I DO THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE INTEGRITY.

WE DO STILL HAVE ALL OF THE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE FOR US TO HAVE ELECTION INTEGRITY.

I THINK OUR ELECTIONS ARE SAFE AND SECURE.

AND I ALSO THINK WE NEED TO MODERNIZE THE ELECTIONS.

SO THESE ARE SOME THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING AND I THINK WE SHOULD DO HERE.

AS FAR AS THE FELONS BEING ABLE TO VOTE, ONCE THEY HAVE SERVED THEIR SENTENCE AND WE'VE SAID THAT YOU HAVE DONE WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, EVEN IF YOU'RE STILL ON PAROLE, YOUR CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS SHOULD BE RESTORED, YOU KNOW.

THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS IN THE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S LIKE, WHAT ARE CIVIL RIGHTS?

THEY ARE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, AND THE RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM UNJUST DISCRIMINATION.

SO I THINK THAT WE SHOULD RESTORE THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENS TO VOTE ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM PRISON.

>> Gene: THIS HAS COME UP A LOT IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE GETTING OUT OF PRISON, WANTING TO GET BACK INTO SOCIETY.

THIS IS A HUGE DISCUSSION IN PLACES LIKE ALABAMA, GEORGIA, FLORIDA.

COULD NEW MEXICO HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A LEADERSHIP POSITION HERE IF THEY PASS THIS PART OF THE FELONY IDEA?

>> Cathryn: WE WILL BE, I THINK, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS ISSUE IF WE DECIDE TO DO IT, BUT A LOT OF OTHER STATES HAVE DONE IT.

ACTUALLY, MAYBE NOT A LOT OF OTHER STATES.

I KNOW D.C. AND I THINK ONE OTHER.

ONE OTHER STATE AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA HAVE RESTORED AS SOON AS YOU ARE RELEASED FROM PRISON.

I JUST THINK THAT IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING FOR US TO DO AT THIS TIME, BECAUSE IT DOES AFFECT PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE ME MOST OFTEN.

>> Merritt: JUST A NOTE ON THAT, IN ITS E-MAIL, THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS PUSHING BACK HARD ON THAT, YET ARE KIND OF SILENT ON SOLOMON PENA AND HIS SECOND CHANCE.

I MEAN, THIS IS HOW HE WAS ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR HIMSELF.

LEADERSHIP POSITION WITHIN THE PARTY, ABLE TO VOTE FOR HIMSELF, STAND FOR OFFICE.

SO EITHER THEY CAN VOTE FOR HIM FOR OFFICE, OR NOT.

I SEE A BIG DISCONNECT THERE.

>> Cathryn: BUT CAN WE -- I'LL JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, LET'S LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO VOTE.

IN NEW MEXICO, WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE.

WE NEED TO MAKE IT SO THAT IT'S ACCESSIBLE AND THAT IT'S INCLUSIVE FOR VOTING.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU, CATHRYN McGILL, ON THAT POINT.

RANK CHOICE VOTING IS UNDER DISCUSSION, AS WELL, STATEWIDE.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

WE HAVE EXPERIENCE, OF COURSE, IN SANTA FE AND LAS CRUCES WITH THIS STYLE OF VOTING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PUBLIC'S APPETITE FOR THIS?

>> Cathryn: I THINK PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AS MUCH AS THEY SHOULD, OR COULD.

IF WE DID A BETTER JOB OF EDUCATION AND OUTREACH -- I'M ALWAYS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT.

SO WE NEED TO DO MORE EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT RANK CHOICE VOTING IS.

I'M A PROPONENT OF IT.

I THINK THAT IT WOULD HELP US GET BETTER CANDIDATES IN OFFICE.

>> Gene: DAVE, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> Dave: WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.

LET'S NOT FORGET, ALL THIS WHOLE THING WITH MAKING VOTING EASIER, MAKING IT HARDER, WAS KICKED OFF WHEN THE SUPREME COURT BASICALLY GUTTED THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

SO THERE'S NO QUESTION.

BUT NUMBER TWO, I LOOK AT ALL OF THESE VERY SPECIFIC PROPOSALS, AND THE NUMBER ONE THING WE NEED TO DO IS WE NEED TO GET MORE PEOPLE REGISTERED TO VOTE AND GET THEM TO VOTE.

I MEAN, IN THE END, YOU CAN SAY WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH LIKE -- YOU KNOW, 2022 WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO WIPE OUT, DO EVERYTHING, AND THEY WON WITH, WHAT, FOUR OR FIVE VOTES IN THE HOUSE.

THE DEMOCRATS KEPT THE SENATE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO GOT OUT AND VOTED, IT WAS YOUNG PEOPLE.

SO I MEAN, WE'RE SPENDING ALL OF THIS TIME KIND OF LIKE TWEAKING THINGS WHEN IF I WERE IN CHARGE OF THE DEMOCRATIC AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTIES, I WOULD BE LIKE, HERE'S ANOTHER $100 MILLION, WE'VE GOT ALL THESE PEOPLE REGISTERED TO VOTE, GET THEM REGISTERED TO VOTE AND MAKE SURE THEY TURN OUT, YOU KNOW.

>> Gene: RANK CHOICE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

BASED ON WHAT WE DID IN SANTA FE, NOTHING BLEW UP.

>> Merritt: IT TOOK CONVINCING FOR ME.

IT REALLY DID TAKE CONVINCING.

IT TOOK A COUPLE OF DETAILED PRESENTATIONS, THE EDUCATION AND OUTREACH THAT CATHRYN IS TALKING ABOUT, FOR ME.

BUT I LIKE IT.

THEY HAVE JUST GONE THROUGH AND IMPLEMENTED IT IN ALASKA, AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT ELIMINATES THE PARTISAN PRIMARY.

ALL THE CANDIDATES GO INTO ONE PRIMARY, AND THE TOP FIVE VOTE-GETTERS ALL GO TO THE GENERAL ELECTION.

AND THEN YOU DECIDE, OKAY, I LIKE THIS PERSON THE BEST, I LIKE THIS PERSON THE NEXT BEST.

IF YOU HAVE TWO CANDIDATES, SAY, IN THE PRIMARY THAT YOU CAN'T DECIDE BETWEEN AND THEY BOTH MAKE IT TO THE GENERAL, YOU GET TO VOTE FOR BOTH OF THEM.

AND THEN YOU'RE LIKE, THIS PERSON IS OKAY, I CAN'T STAND THIS PERSON.

OUR VOTING MACHINES ARE ALREADY SET UP TO HANDLE IT, SO IT WILL NOT COST MORE MONEY.

ALSO, IT GIVES YOU MORE CHOICE AND IT GIVES YOU MORE OPTIONS, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO RANK.

YOU CAN JUST VOTE FOR ONE.

YOU CAN JUST SAY, I ONLY WANT THIS PERSON.

YOUR BALLOT IS STILL VALID.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO RANK ALL FIVE, IF YOU ONLY RANK TWO, YOUR BALLOT IS STILL VALID.

SO IT GIVES VOTERS A LOT MORE CHOICE, A LOT MORE OPTIONS, AND IT GIVES MORE CANDIDATES ACCESS, WHICH IS ALSO IMPORTANT, I THINK, IS CANDIDATE ACCESS.

>> Gene: THAT'S INTERESTING.

NOT TO MAKE YOU SPOKESPERSON FOR THE GOP AS YOU'RE SITTING HERE, BUT RANK CHOICE VOTING IN THE PARTY, I'VE NOT HEARD CHATTER AGAINST IT NECESSARILY LOUD.

ARE FOLKS JUST SORT OF WAITING AND WATCHING?

>> Merritt: NEITHER PARTY IS -- DEMOCRATS ARE MORE OPEN TO IT THAN REPUBLICANS, IN GENERAL, BUT NEITHER PARTY IS TERRIBLY EXCITED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT DOES CHANGE THE PRIMARY SYSTEM, WHICH IS REALLY THE BIG PARTISAN EFFORT.

IT MAKES ELECTIONS MORE NONPARTISAN.

IT CHANGES PARTY STRUCTURE -- NOT STRUCTURE, BUT TRADITION.

AND CHANGE IS NOT ALWAYS POPULAR.

>> Gene: NO MATTER HOW RIGHTEOUS IT LOOKS.

>> Merritt: RIGHT.

>> Cathryn: I THINK IT'S NECESSARY, THOUGH, FOR THE PEOPLE IN THAT PARTY.

AND YOUNG PEOPLE ARE REALLY NOT INVESTED IN THIS BINARY SYSTEM.

WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING.

>> Dave: VERY QUICK OBSERVATION.

THIS IS MY EDITORIAL.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLITICIANS IN GENERAL, FROM A STATE LEGISLATOR TO A CITY COUNCILOR TO A CONGRESSMAN, THEY SEEM SORT OF AFRAID OF VOTING, YOU KNOW.

I MEAN, LIKE, VOTING TO THEM IS BOTH HOW THEY GET ELECTED AND COULD BE THEIR DOWNFALL.

SO I GUESS YOU HAVE A LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH IT.

BUT TO ME, MORE VOTING -- YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE A TERRIBLE TURNOUT FOR VOTING.

IT'S AWFUL FOR THIS COUNTRY IN GENERAL.

ACROSS THE BOARD, 52 PERCENT, THAT'S TERRIBLE.

AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY IMPROVED IT.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO GET PEOPLE REGISTERED, GET THEM TO VOTE.

THE PARTIES NEED TO PUSH OUT THEIR VOTERS.

>> Cathryn: AND A REASON, TO GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO VOTE.

SO THE PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO ARE LIKE, CATHY, WHY SHOULD I VOTE FOR EITHER ONE OF THESE PEOPLE?

I HAVE NOTHING IN INTEREST.

>> Merritt: AND THE POLITICIANS DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT TO THE FAR EXTREMES OF EITHER PARTY IN A PARTISAN PRIMARY.

IF THAT'S ELIMINATED, THEY MAY VOTE MORE FREELY TO REALLY REPRESENT THEIR VOTERS.

>> Dave: I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO SUM IT UP.

WE NEED MORE AND EASIER ACCESS TO VOTING.

WE ALSO NEED A BETTER REASON TO VOTE, WHICH IS BETTER POLITICIAN, AND POLITICIANS THAT CAN COMMUNICATE WELL AND THAT CAN TELL PEOPLE, VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE I CAN DO THIS FOR YOU.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT, INSTEAD OF JUST BEING A POLITICIAN.

THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

WE'LL MEET RIGHT BACK HERE AT THE TABLE IN JUST UNDER TEN MINUTES FOR OUR FINAL DISCUSSION OF THE WEEK ON A BILL THAT WOULD SHIFT CONTROL OF PUBLIC UTILITIES FROM THE STATE TO LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.

A LOT OF ISSUES THERE.

BUT BUT FIRST, A NEW ANALYSIS OF THE OFFICIAL MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES FILED IN THE 'RUST' SHOOTING INCIDENT.

ON WEDNESDAY, LIVE ON OUR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE, I SPOKE WITH GENE MADDAUS.

HE'S A SENIOR REPORTER FOR VARIETY MAGAZINE IN LOS ANGELES WHO HAS BEEN TAPPED INTO THIS CASE FROM THE BEGINNING.

AS HE EXPLAINED TO ME, PROVING ALEC BALDWIN WAS CULPABLE IN THE TRAGEDY WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR PROSECUTORS.

>> Gene: WE'RE JOINED BY GENE MADDAUS.

HE'S A REPORTER FOR VARIETY MAGAZINE, THE INDUSTRY BIBLE, I LIKE TO THINK, OUT IN LOS ANGELES.

GENE, YOU WERE WITH US BEFORE REGARDING THE 'RUST' SITUATION WITH MR. BALDWIN AND THE ARMORER AND OTHERS, BUT NOW WE'RE DOWN TO CHARGES BEING FILED AGAINST TWO PEOPLE, AND I'M CURIOUS FROM WHERE YOU SIT OUT IN LA, WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST REACTION WHEN YOU HEARD THE CHARGES COMING DOWN FOR MR. BALDWIN AND MS. GUTIERREZ, THE ARMORER ON THE SET OF 'RUST' AS WELL?

>> Maddaus: I MEAN, WE DEFINITELY EXPECTED SOMETHING TO BE FILED, BUT I THINK IT WAS STILL A SURPRISE THAT BALDWIN WAS CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

I THINK THAT WAS SORT OF THE MAXIMUM YOU COULD IMAGINE HIM BEING CHARGED WITH.

AND THERE'S AN ENHANCEMENT ON IT THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT QUITE SERIOUS IN TERMS OF PRISON, TIME.

SO IT'S CERTAINLY MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING.

CERTAINLY THE ARMORER, I THINK PEOPLE HAD SORT OF FOCUSED A LOT ON HER AND THOUGHT THAT SHE PROBABLY WOULD BE CHARGED.

BUT TO ADD BALDWIN AND GIVE HIM A FELONY THAT CARRIES LIKE A FIVE TO SIX YEAR SENTENCE IS DEFINITELY SWINGING FOR THE FENCES.

>> Gene: PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT ADD-ON CHARGE, AS WELL.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT YOU JUST MADE THERE, ACTUALLY.

>> Maddaus: YES.

SO HE'S CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, WHICH IN NEW MEXICO IS A FELONY, BUT IT'S A FOURTH DEGREE FELONY, SO IT'S NOT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, IT'S THE LOWEST LEVEL FELONY YOU CAN CHARGE.

BUT BECAUSE THERE WAS A GUN USED IN THE COURSE OF THAT FELONY, THEY'VE ADDED ON THIS WEAPONS ENHANCEMENT THAT CARRIES A FIVE YEAR MINIMUM SENTENCE.

SO IT'S NOT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE JUDGE.

IF YOU'RE CONVICTED OF THIS, YOU GET A FIVE YEAR MINIMUM SENTENCE, MANDATORY, AND THEN YOU COULD GET ANOTHER 18 MONTHS ON TOP OF THAT.

SO IT COULD BE AS MUCH AS SIX AND A HALF YEARS.

>> Gene: THAT'S INCREDIBLE, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

AND IT COMES DOWN TO AN OBVIOUS QUESTION I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU NEXT.

WE'VE GOT SAG AFTER THAT RELEASING A STATEMENT IN DEFENSE OF MR. BALDWIN BASICALLY SAYING THIS.

HE'S AN ACTOR.

WE HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE IN OUR MOVIE SETS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLACE FOR A LONG TIME ABOUT HOW WEAPONS GET HANDLED, AND IT IS NOT, IN FACT, THE ACTOR'S JOB TO CHECK OVER EVERYBODY ELSE'S WORK.

FIRST, WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT SAG CAME OUT SO EARLY AND SO FORCEFULLY, AND HAS THERE BEEN ANY PUSHBACK THAT YOU'VE GLEANED OUT IN LA TO SAG FOR TAKING SUCH A STRONG STAND FOR MR. BALDWIN?

>> Maddaus: AGAIN, I HONESTLY WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED BY THAT, BECAUSE CERTAINLY THE NARRATIVE AROUND THIS SHOOTING HAS BEEN VERY FOCUSED ON, YOU KNOW, LOW BUDGET FILMS AND THE RISKS OF HIRING UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE.

AND CERTAINLY THE BELOW THE LINE UNIONS, THEY SORT OF FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT PRODUCERS ARE DOING, THEY'RE CUTTING CORNERS ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE'RE MISTREATED LIKE THIS.

AND I THINK THERE WAS A REAL SENSE OF SOLIDARITY ACROSS ALL THE UNIONS WITH WITH THAT.

BUT THEN WHEN YOU CHARGE AN ACTOR, I THINK THE ACTORS DID FEEL LIKE THEY HAD TO STAND UP AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS NOT WHAT WE'RE HIRED TO DO.

WE'RE NOT HIRED -- LIKE, THAT'S WHAT THE ARMORER IS HIRED TO DO, IS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE SAFE ON SET, AND WE CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ARMORER'S JOB.

YOU KNOW, IT GETS INTO THIS INTERESTING THING OF THE WORLD OF REALITY AND THEN THE WORLD OF MOVIES.

LIKE, IN THE WORLD OF REALITY, YOU NEVER POINT A GUN AT SOMEBODY UNLESS YOU'RE GOING TO SHOOT THEM.

IN THE WORLD OF MOVIES, YOU MIGHT, YOU KNOW.

LIKE, IT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF EXPECTATIONS.

AND SO FOR THE SAG FOLKS, THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING, LOOK, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR JOB, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE DO.

WE ARE PUTTY IN THE HANDS OF THE DIRECTOR AND WE ARE NOT THERE TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO OR TO SECOND-GUESS THE ARMORER'S, WHOSE JOB IT IS TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS SAFE.

>> Gene: GENE, ONE OF THE POINTS OF CONFUSION, I GUESS IS PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT, IS THE ROLE OF THE FIRST AD WHO HAS PLED OUT OF THIS SITUATION, AND THE REPORTING RUNS TWO WAYS.

ONE IS THAT HE NEVER DID PICK UP THAT, YOU KNOW, PISTOL OUTSIDE AND BRING IT INTO THAT SMALL LITTLE CHURCH AND YELL, "COLD GUN," AND THEN OTHERS ARE REPORTED THAT HE, IN FACT, DID DO THAT.

WE'LL FIND OUT WHEN WE GET TO TRIAL, CERTAINLY.

BUT I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON HOW THE DA LET THE FIRST AD PLEAD OUT HERE, WHO BASICALLY CONFESSED TO NOT CHECKING THE GUN WHEN HE HANDED IT TO MR. BALDWIN APPROPRIATELY.

I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> Maddaus: WELL, IT IS INTERESTING.

DAVID HALLS, THE FIRST ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, HAS NOT BEEN OUT IN PUBLIC, HAS NOT DONE ANY INTERVIEWS, AND HE SORT OF RESISTED THE OSHA INVESTIGATORS FOR A LITTLE WHILE, DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO THEM.

BUT THEN APPARENTLY HE DID.

HIS LAWYER, YOU KNOW, KEPT HIM QUIET AND THEN SORT OF WENT TO THEM AND SAID, LOOK, WE'LL COOPERATE, WHAT KIND OF DEAL CAN WE GET, AND THEY RESPONDED FAVORABLY TO THAT COOPERATION.

NOW, COMPARE THAT TO ALEC BALDWIN WHO'S GIVEN INTERVIEWS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CNN.

YOU KNOW, SPOKEN MANY, MANY TIMES TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND JUST SAID ALL KINDS OF THINGS, SOME OF THEM CONTRADICTORY, AND NOW HAS SORT OF, IN SOME WAYS, NOT HELPED HIMSELF BY DOING THAT AND IS NOW FACING AN INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE.

LIKE, IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH THAT HE TOOK COMPARED TO WHAT HALLS DID.

>> Gene: THERE WERE COMPLAINTS, AS YOU KNOW AND AS YOU REPORTED WHEN YOU WERE WITH US AT NEW MEXICO PBS LAST TIME WHEN THE STORY BROKE, THERE WERE TWO DISCHARGES ON THAT SET EARLIER THAT WEEK OF FIREARMS.

THERE WAS A WALK-OUT OF THE CAMERA CREW, WHO REALLY WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THE WAY THE CULTURE ON THE SET WAS GOING ON THERE.

SO I'M KIND OF LEANING TOWARDS WHERE THE DA IS COMING FROM HERE.

CLEARLY SOMETHING WAS NOT RIGHT ON THAT SET.

AND WHAT I'M LEADING UP TO IS, DOES THIS ALL FALL ON MR. BALDWIN -- THAT'S THE BIG ARGUMENT HERE LOCALLY -- AS A 'PRODUCER' AND WHAT HIS JOB ACTUALLY WAS TO OVERSEE ALL OF THIS?

YOUR SENSE OF HOW THAT WOULD COME DOWN, TO TRY TO MAKE MR. BALDWIN THE OVERSEER OF ALL ACTIONS ON A FILM SET.

>> Maddaus: I MEAN, HE'S CALLED HIMSELF A CREATIVE PRODUCER, MEANING HE WOULD GIVE INPUT ON A CHARACTER, OR THE STORY OR THE PLOT.

IT'S NOT HIS JOB TO HIRE THE CREW.

LIKE, THAT'S NOT WHAT HE'S THERE TO DO.

AND I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT IT IS HIS JOB TO HIRE THE CREW, OR THAT HE HAD ANY ROLE IN HIRING THIS ARMORER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

YOU DO SEE IN THE PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT THAT THE PROSECUTOR FILED YESTERDAY, ALEC BALDWIN FAILED TO PROPERLY SUPERVISE, FAILED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WERE SAFETY MEETINGS, FAILED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ARMORER WAS WELL QUALIFIED.

ALL OF THESE SUPPOSED DUTIES THAT HE HAS AS A PRODUCER, OR LEAD ACTOR IN THE FILM, WELL, ARE THOSE HIS DUTIES?

LIKE, I GUESS THAT WILL BE AN ISSUE.

THEY'RE NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, IT WAS HIS JOB TO MAKE SURE THAT SAFETY BULLETIN NUMBER ONE WAS ADHERED TO BECAUSE OF X, Y AND Z IN HIS CONTRACT.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPELL OUT AT SOME POINT WHAT HE WAS ACTUALLY REQUIRED TO DO, BECAUSE HIS LAWYER IS GOING TO COME IN AND SAY, HE WAS AN ACTOR.

HE DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP FOR THE FIRST WEEK.

HE WAS THERE THE SECOND WEEK DOING HIS JOB, AND HIS JOB WASN'T TO HIRE THE ARMORER OR TO MAKE SURE SHE WAS QUALIFIED.

>> Gene: BUT THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION, EVEN HERE LOCALLY, IS THAT THE PRODUCER IS THE OVERSEER OF ALL.

SOMEHOW THIS MEME HAS SORT OF GOTTEN OUT THERE AGAINST MR. BALDWIN.

FOR INSTANCE, YOU MENTIONED THE PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT YESTERDAY.

LET ME READ YOU A BIT OF IT.

LISTS BALDWIN, JUST TO REITERATE, LISTS HIM AS BOTH AN ACTOR AND A PRODUCER ON 'RUST.'

IT ALLEGES, IN PART: "ON THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING ALONE, EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT NO LESS THAN A DOZEN ACTS OR OMISSIONS OF RECKLESSNESS OCCURRED IN THE SHORT TIME PERIOD PRIOR TO LUNCH AND THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING, AND THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE RECKLESS HANDLING OF THE FIREARM BY MR.

BALDWIN."

THE REASON I READ THAT OUT LOUD IS, THERE'S STARTING TO BE A FEELING OUT HERE LOCALLY THAT OUR DA MIGHT BE REACHING A LITTLE BIT HERE, AND THE SAME WITH HER INVESTIGATIVE TEAM, THAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT MR. BALDWIN.

A POLITICAL PLAY, SO TO SPEAK.

I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO COMMENT ON THAT.

YOU'RE OUT THERE, YOU'RE NOT HERE.

BUT I'M CURIOUS HOW THIS DOES LOOK FROM A DISTANCE, THE FILES CHARGED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OUT HERE.

DOES IT FEEL POLITICAL TO LA PEOPLE AT ALL, OR IS THIS REALLY VERY STRAIGHT AHEAD?

>> Maddaus: I THINK LA PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY ALEC BALDWIN IS VERY FAMOUS FOR HAVING POLITICAL OPINIONS.

HE PLAYED DONALD TRUMP FOR YEARS ON SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE.

HE'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY POLARIZING PERSON IN THE NATIONAL POLITICAL LANDSCAPE.

LA PEOPLE ARE DEFINITELY ON ONE SIDE OF THAT POLITICAL DIALOGUE, AND SO THEY'RE INCLINED TO BE SUSPECT OF ANYBODY IN THEIR TRIBE SORT OF BEING TARGETED.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY LIKE ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF THAT, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS A THOUGHT THAT PEOPLE HAVE.

BUT JUST IN TERMS OF WHETHER IT'S A REACH OR NOT, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN TALKING TO DEFENSE LAWYERS IN NEW MEXICO WHO ARE SORT OF SPELLING OUT FOR ME, HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO PROVE TO PROVE INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, AND IT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T CHECK THE GUN, IT'S NOT JUST I FORGOT TO DO SOMETHING, IT'S A WILLFUL DISREGARD FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE AND SAFETY, AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT THERE'S A DANGER AND YOU HAVE TO IGNORE IT.

SO IT COULD COME DOWN TO THINGS LIKE A FIGHT, WHERE YOU PUNCH SOMEBODY AND THEY -- YOU DON'T MEAN TO KILL THEM, BUT THEY DID.

YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT YOU KNEW THAT IT WAS A DANGEROUS ACT.

SO DID ALEC BALDWIN KNOW THAT PULLING THE TRIGGER HERE WAS A DANGEROUS ACT?

I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO.

WAS HE AWARE OF THIS RISK.

AND HE'S GOING TO SAY, NOBODY HAD ANY IDEA, IT'S NEVER HAPPENED IN A MILLION YEARS THAT THERE HAVE BEEN LIVE ROUNDS MIXED IN WITH DUMMY ROUNDS.

THE ARMORER DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

NOBODY EVEN HAD THE FIRST INKLING OF THAT.

SO TO SAY THAT HE WAS AWARE OF THE RISK AND RECKLESSLY IGNORED IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW THAT HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, OR DID KNOW, IN FACT, THAT PULLING THAT TRIGGER WAS GOING TO HAVE THAT RESULT, AND THAT IS A TOUGH HILL TO CLIMB.

>> Gene: THANK YOU TO GENE MADDAUS FROM VARIETY FOR MAKING TIME TO TALK WITH US AND SHARE SOME OF HIS INSIGHTS.

YOU CAN WATCH THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION ONLINE RIGHT NOW ON OUR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE PAGES.

FOR NOW, IT'S TIME TO WELCOME BACK OUR OPINION PANELISTS FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

SENATE DEMOCRAT CARRIE HAMBLEN HAS INTRODUCED A BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW MUNICIPAL COUNTY AND TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THEIR OWN ELECTRICAL UTILITIES.

THE LOCAL CHOICE ENERGY ACT GIVES AUTHORITY TO THOSE COMMUNITIES TO CREATE THEIR OWN PUBLICLY OWNED UTILITIES FOR THEIR SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES.

THIS IS VERY INTERESTING.

NOW, IF PASSED, ELECTRIC CONSUMERS WHO RECEIVE ELECTRICITY FROM PNM OR ANOTHER PRIVATELY RUN UTILITY CAN CHOOSE TO CONTINUE UNDER THEIR CURRENT PROVIDER, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY THEIR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

NOW, MERRITT, THIS IS SO FASCINATING.

SHOULD LOCAL GOVERNMENTS BE GIVEN, JUST SIMPLY, THE POWER TO CREATE A PUBLIC ENERGY OPTION FOR THEIR OWN RESIDENTS?

IT'S KIND OF FASCINATING TO THINK ABOUT.

>> Merritt: WELL, I MEAN, I ALWAYS LIKE THE IDEA OF DECENTRALIZING CONTROL, AND I THINK LOCAL CONTROL IS BETTER.

I THINK IT'S BETTER FOR SCHOOLS, IT'S BETTER FOR SO MANY THINGS.

I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT UTILITIES.

SO I FIND THIS A FASCINATING PROPOSAL.

I THINK IT MAY BE BETTER FOR SOME, IN PARTICULAR, RURAL COMMUNITIES, AND AS WE LOOK AT SOME OF THE OPTIONS WE'RE LOOKING AT WITH PNM AS DIFFERENT PLANTS ARE GOING OFF-LINE AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT JUST TRYING TO GET POWER CONTINUING TO THE GRID, BECAUSE THE SAN JUAN PLANTS ARE GOING DOWN, THIS MIGHT BE AN OPTION FOR SOME OF THE MORE OUT-THERE COMMUNITIES THAT PNM IS STRUGGLING TO SERVE.

THIS MAY SERVE EVERYONE.

SO I FIND THIS PROPOSAL FASCINATING.

WHEN IT CAME UP AS A TOPIC, I HADN'T HEARD ABOUT IT.

I'M INTRIGUED TO HEAR MORE.

>> Gene: I'M IN THE SAME BOAT WITH YOU.

CATHY, IT'S INTERESTING ON THIS, TEN OTHER STATES FOLLOW A SIMILAR COMMUNITY CHOICE AGGREGATION SYSTEM, WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS KNOWN AS, THAT ALLOWS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO MANAGE THEIR ELECTRICAL GENERATION.

YOU CAN'T JUST BE A JOKER AND WAKE UP ONE DAY AND WANT TO PUT UP AN ELECTRIC UTILITY.

THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION IN HERE, I THINK, WITH THIS IDEA THAT YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE SOME PEOPLE, EITHER CONSULTANTS OR PERMANENTLY ON YOUR STAFF, THAT ARE GOING TO COST A LOT OF MONEY, A TEAM TO STAND UP AN ELECTRICAL UTILITY THING.

IS IT REALLY DOABLE?

>> Cathryn: I DON'T KNOW.

AND WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS, I DON'T KNOW, AND I BET, YOU KNOW, IF WE WENT OUT ON THE STREET AND ASKED TEN PEOPLE, DO YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD ALSO RESPOND, I DON'T KNOW, EITHER.

SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MUCH, MUCH MORE INFORMATION BEFORE WE WOULD MAKE SUCH A DRASTIC CHANGE.

ONE PERSON IS SAYING -- YOU KNOW, THE PROPONENTS ARE SAYING THAT IT WILL COST US LESS, 15 TO 20 PERCENT LESS, AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT WILL COST US MORE.

WE'RE SORT OF CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE, AND I'M GOING TO JUST CONFESS MY IGNORANCE ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AND WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS.

AND SO I HOPE THAT WE WILL, AGAIN, EDUCATE AND DO OUTREACH ABOUT WHAT DOES THIS REALLY MEAN, AND CAN WE REALLY DO IT.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY TO DO IT YET.

I'M NOT AGAINST IT, I'M NOT FOR IT, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

JUST A REMINDER, SIMILAR BILLS WERE PROPOSED, DAVE, IN 2019 AND 2021.

THEY SORT OF CAME AND WENT.

WE DIDN'T REALLY DISCUSS THEM.

BUT HERE'S WHAT MAKES ME INTERESTED IN THIS IDEA.

THERE IS A CONFLUENCE OF EVENTS HAPPENING, MEANING THE TECH IS COMING THE WAY OF THIS IDEA.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ALTERNATIVE ENERGY CHOICES OR OPTIONS, THEY'RE OUT THERE NOW.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO LOOK LIKE WHAT WE SEE UP IN THE NORTHWESTERN PART OF OUR STATE, YOU CAN DO IT MUCH CLEANER.

>> Dave: LIKE EVERYONE, THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I HAD HEARD ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE GIVEN THE NOTES TO START READING IT.

BUT ONE THING THAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MY MIND, AND MERRITT, YOU'LL HAVE TO HELP ME, NORTH DAKOTA OR SOUTH DAKOTA HAS A STATE-OWNED BANK, AND IT'S BEEN TREMENDOUSLY BENEFICIAL BECAUSE IT PROVIDED COMPETITION TO THE BIG BANKS.

IT GAVE THE STATE A WAY TO SORT OF CONTROL ALL THE MONEY FOR ALL THE STATE COLLECTIONS.

IT GOES INTO THIS STATE-OWNED BANK, AND THEN THEY USE IT TO LEND OUT AND THEY DO IT TO OTHER BANKS.

SO I THINK THAT HAVING ANOTHER PLAYER ON THE FIELD THAT'S GOING TO PROVIDE COMPETITION CAN ONLY BE A GOOD THING.

BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS THE TECHNOLOGY HERE THAT TOWNS CAN DO IT?

SOMEHOW THE IDEA THAT ALBUQUERQUE IS GOING TO SET UP AN ALTERNATIVE TO PNM SOUNDS SORT OF FANTASTICAL, BUT IT'S LIKE, WOW, THAT WOULD BE GREAT IN A WAY.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU GUYS THIS.

WHAT HAPPENS, MERRITT, IF YOU'RE IN A COUNTY WITH A LOT OF OPEN SPACE AND A LOT OF SUNSHINE, AND YOU DECIDE, WE'RE GOING ALL SOLAR IN THIS COUNTY, GUYS, AND IN THIS MUNICIPALITY.

AND, IN FACT, WE'RE GOING TO BUILD IT SO BIG, WE'RE GOING TO START SELLING ENERGY TO OTHER COUNTIES AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.

DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN HERE?

IT COULD TURN INTO A MESS IF YOU REALLY START TO THINK ABOUT SOME SMART PEOPLE THAT REALLY WANT TO TAKE A LEAD ON THIS AND GET OUT THERE.

IT'S NOT JUST A STAND-ALONE DEAL.

>> Merritt: WELL, AND IT'S NOT -- I MEAN, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ENTIRELY THE WILD WEST.

EVERYTHING HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE PRC, WHICH MEANS THINGS COULD TAKE YEARS.

LET'S BE REAL ABOUT THAT.

AND THERE IS SOME PRECEDENT IN THIS.

THERE ARE -- IF YOU FOLLOW THE TOWN OF EDGEWOOD TRYING TO TAKE OVER ITS WATER UTILITY AND THAT BATTLE, THAT'S BEEN ONGOING.

THERE'S A PRIVATE WATER UTILITY THAT THE TOWN OF EDGEWOOD HAS BEEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, AND THAT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING BATTLE.

SO AGAIN, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF LOCAL CONTROL.

AND I DON'T SEE ALBUQUERQUE DOING THAT.

I DON'T SEE LAS CRUCES DOING THAT.

BUT I COULD SEE SOME OF THE SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES WHO MAY ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTS ON ELECTRIC CO-OPS ANYWAY.

LIKE, IN THE EAST MOUNTAINS, WE HAVE ELECTRIC CO-OPS.

SO THIS IS JUST, I THINK, A WAY OF PERHAPS MAKING THOSE CO-OPS A LITTLE MORE ROBUST AND GIVING THEM SOME BARGAINING POWER, IF YOU WILL.

>> Gene: DOES ANYBODY RECALL ABOUT 15 TO 20 YEARS AGO, RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, IT WAS ON I-25, DO YOU REMEMBER THE OLD LEVI'S PLANT YEARS AGO THAT FLIPPED OVER TO THE HONEYWELL PLANT?

THERE WAS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN FROM NEW JERSEY THAT WAS HERE REPRESENTING HONEYWELL, AND A NEW TECH AT THE TIME WHICH WAS A MINIATURE NUCLEAR POWERED ENERGY SYSTEM THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY BURY UNDERGROUND.

IT WAS ONLY ABOUT TEN FEET TALL, MAYBE FIVE BY FIVE.

AND YOU COULD LIGHT UP LITERALLY A SMALL TOWN WITH THIS ONE THING.

>> Merritt: AND THEY ARE EVEN SMALLER NOW.

>> Gene: EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> Dave: THERE WAS A GROUP CALLED ATOMS FOR PEACE, AND THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THAT EVERY HOUSE WOULD HAVE THIS LITTLE NUCLEAR REACTOR IN THEIR BACKYARD, AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE YOU WOULD GENERATE POWER.

BUT I THINK THE POINT THAT YOU WERE MAKING ABOUT, LIKE, IF A COUNTY, A SMALL COUNTY, DECIDES TO GO ALL SOLAR, THAT COULD ONLY BE GOOD IN SOME SENSE BECAUSE IF WE ARE GOING TO GO THERE SOME WAY, GETTING SOME EXPERIENCE, GETTING THESE SMALL COUNTIES TO TRY IT CAN ONLY BE GOOD FOR NEW MEXICO AND GOOD FOR THAT.

>> Gene: LET ME THROW THIS OUT THERE, TOO, AS WELL, GUYS.

IF I'M AVANGRID, WHOVER IS LOOKING TO BUY PNM, I'M LOOKING AT THIS IDEA AND I'M GOING, NO WAY.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, WE NEED TO KILL THIS THING NOW.

CAN YOU IMAGINE BEING AN EXECUTIVE OF AVANGRID?

THERE'S NO WAY.

GETTING PHONE CALLS TO HELP SET UP THINGS THAT'S GOING TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE INCLINED TO BE A GOOD PARTNER WITH A LOCAL MUNICIPALITY TAKING MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET.

>> Cathryn: NO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE COOPERATIVE.

AND THERE'S SOME QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS NEW ENTITY COME IN TO GET CUSTOMERS.

ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE CUSTOMERS FROM PNM AND AVANGRID?

OF COURSE THEY WOULD.

I THINK THAT WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION AS OF YET.

AND IF THE BILL, YOU KNOW, KEEPS GETTING INTRODUCED AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INTRODUCING IT, CAN WE DO A LITTLE BIT MORE PUBLIC EDUCATION ABOUT WHY WE SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO IT, AND THEN I THINK PEOPLE COULD GET BEHIND IT, AND THAT'S WHERE I WOULD HAVE TO COME DOWN.

>> Gene: IT'S INTERESTING, A REP FROM PNM HAS SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE BILL ALREADY, TELLING THE JOURNAL THE BILL WOULD RAISE RATES FOR CUSTOMERS, THAT'S ALWAYS THE FIRST THING, OF COURSE, BUT CREATE SIGNIFICANT GRID RELIABILITY ISSUES.

THAT IS A LEGITIMATE CONCERN, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME.

>> Merritt: ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT AN ESTABLISHED PROVIDER WHO'S WELL-KNOWN AND ACCOUNTABLE, AND THEN SUDDENLY LET'S SAY HATCH, BECAUSE THERE'S A BIG SOLAR FIELD ON RANCH LAND BETWEEN HATCH AND DEMING, YOU DRIVE BY IT EVERY TIME YOU'RE DRIVING ON THAT HIGHWAY, AND MAYBE HATCH DECIDES, WELL, LET'S JUST EXPAND THAT OUT, AND HATCH IS GOING, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SOLAR UTILITY.

THEY'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE.

SO AGAIN -- >> Gene: IS THIS A BACK DOOR WAY OF GETTING ALT ENERGY OUT THERE?

IS THAT THE GOAL HERE GUYS, DO YOU SENSE THIS?

JUST GIVING AN AVENUE TO IDEAS, IS THAT SO WRONG?

>> Dave: IT COULD BE, BUT I THINK IF ONE BELIEVES THAT THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IS TO BE THE COUNTERBALANCE TO THE BIG BAD MONOPOLY COMPANY, THIS COULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

THE GOVERNMENT IS A STATE GOVERNMENT, THE PRC HAS THE ABILITY TO GIVE SOMEBODY A LEG UP, TO COMPETE, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

THE WHOLE IDEA, OF COURSE, IS THAT MUNICIPALITIES RELIED UPON UTILITIES, AND UTILITIES COULD NEVER BE TOUCHED, BUT THAT WAS LIKE -- THAT'S A 50-YEAR-OLD THINKING, RIGHT?

NOW THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS IMPROVED WHERE WE DON'T -- AND LET'S FACE IT, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE SEEN THE UTILITIES -- >> Gene: THE POLICYMAKERS ARE ALWAYS BEHIND TECH.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

THEY'RE ALWAYS A STEP BEHIND, THE POLICYMAKERS.

>> Dave: YES.

>> Gene: LET ME THROW THIS OUT THERE, GUYS.

SORRY, DAVE, I'VE GOT TO GET THIS IN.

THE PRC WAS MENTIONED.

WE'VE GOT SOME ISSUES, GUYS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, ONE OF THE THREE COMMISSIONERS OF THE NEW PRC ANNOUNCED HE WOULD RECUSE HIMSELF IN ANY DECISION REGARDING A PROPOSED MERGER BETWEEN PNM AND GLOBAL UTILITY AVANGRID, AS I MENTIONED.

PATRICK O'CONNELL CITES PREVIOUS TESTIMONY HE GAVE WHILE HE WORKED FOR AN ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP AS A REASON FOR HIS RECUSAL.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

WE'VE GOT THIS SHINY NEW PRC, THE IDEA IS THEY WOULD BE QUICKER, SMARTER, FASTER.

>> Merritt: THE BIGGEST ISSUE BEFORE THE NEW PRC AND NOW WE'RE ONLY GOING TO HAVE TWO VOTES ON IT.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> Gene: THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.

HOW DOES THAT WORK OUT, CATHY?

>> Cathryn: IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

I DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION TO IT, BUT WHEN I SEE IT, I'M WONDERING, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN, AND HOW WAS THAT NOT VETTED AT THE BEGINNING.

BECAUSE THIS WAS THEIR BIGGEST ISSUE TO DISCUSS.

>> Gene: MR. O'CONNELL, DAVID, HAD PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS A RESOURCE PLANNER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO.

HOW DID HE GET THE JOB?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

>> Dave: WE HAVE TO SAY, THE OBVIOUS THING IS, THIS IS GOING TO LAND ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, AND SHE MAY HAVE TO FORCE SOME RESIGNATIONS.

I MEAN, THIS WAS HER IDEA.

I ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE IDEA.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION BEING RUN BY PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO RECUSE THEMSELVES.

>> Gene: AND THE IDEA OF GOING DOWN FROM FIVE TO THREE.

NOW IT SUDDENLY LOOKS LIKE FIVE MIGHT HAVE BEEN BETTER TO HAVE THAN THREE.

>> Dave: I DON'T KNOW THE STRUCTURE, BUT DOES SHE HAVE THE ABILITY TO FORCE RESIGNATIONS?

CAN SHE TAKE SOMEONE OUT?

>> Gene: PROBABLY SO.

THAT'S A GOOD ONE THERE.

INTERESTING.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT ALL PLAYS OUT.

IT'S GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING THING.

LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF ALT ENERGY SYSTEMS OUT THERE THAT CAN LIGHT UP TOWNS RIGHT NOW.

I'D BE VERY CURIOUS IF A PROGRESSIVE COUNTY HERE DECIDES TO GO THERE, AND OF THE DOMINOES THAT WOULD FALL IN NEW MEXICO AFTER THAT.

LIKE NUCLEAR, EXACTLY.

>> Cathryn: WHEN I FLIP THE SWITCH, I WANT THE LIGHTS TO COME ON, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON IS SAYING.

MAKE SURE IT COMES ON, MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T COST ME SO MUCH THAT I CAN'T AFFORD IT.

AND THEN I'M RELYING ON THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE ELECTED TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS, AND TO TELL ME WHY THEY'RE MAKING THOSE DECISIONS.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL, AS ALWAYS, THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THAT THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR INSTAGRAM PAGES, AND CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS VIDEO APP, OR ON YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Gene: I ADORED THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL EDITORIAL EARLY THIS WEEK ENTITLED: "WAIT, DID WE JUST SPEND $3.8 MILLION ON TRASH BODY CAMS?"

WHAT A GREAT HEADLINE.

TALK ABOUT CUTTING TO THE POINT.

AS YOU HEARD EARLIER ON THE SHOW, THE CURRENT BCSO SHERIFF JOHN ALLEN ISN'T HOLDING BACK ON WHAT HE'S STUCK WITH THANKS TO THE PREVIOUS SHERIFF, MANUEL GONZALES.

MY SENSE IS, SHERIFF ALLEN HAS IT RIGHT WHEN HE SAYS BODY CAMS FOR BCSO WERE FORCED ON THE COUNTY BY LAW, AND A RELUCTANT SHERIFF, UNABLE TO SEE THE BENEFITS OF THEIR USE GIVEN HIS QUOTES, WAS UNABLE TO GRASP WHAT HE WAS OFFERED, LIKELY BECAUSE HE HAD NEVER LOOKED UP ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.

NOW, WHY SHERIFF GONZALES WOULD MAKE A DEAL WITH ALL OF THESE TECHNICAL SHORTCOMINGS YOU HEARD IN THE SHOW EARLIER TELLS ME THE MAN WAS RIPE FOR THE PICKING, AND BY EXTENSION, TAXPAYERS IN BOTH THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, BY THE WAY, ARE NOW GOING TO BE ON THE HOOK FOR MILLIONS TO GET OUT FROM UNDER IT, AS SHERIFF ALLEN ADVISES.

SIMPLY, WE GOT SNOCKERED.

I BET THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE SO-CALLED TRASH DEAL LAUGHED ABOUT THIS DEAL FOR WEEKS.

I HOPE THEY FIND IT FUNNY WHEN SHERIFF ALLEN CALLS LOOKING FOR A BUY-OUT NUMBER.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, In FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.